Jake's Character Transfer Application

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:47 pm

Nasca wrote:Also; people need to get it through their head that right now in the server gear DOES matter and so does experience. Having a highly trained individual puts you miles ahead of everyone, full stop. Neither benefits are really fair, nor are they reasonable for the setting.


So what then? Wait for everyone to get extremely over powered gear? I guess the first person that gets good gear should be PKed by those standards, since it is unfair. I guess we should wait until Lazarus comes up to let people create slightly experienced characters.

Nasca wrote:Your ranger was not sent with them.
The NCR would not send a veteran ranger [one of, if not the most elite fighting force they have] with a scouting party of people they knew they were probably going to abandon and be unable to support.

Well, in the lore the New Californian Republic was basically massacred. They could easily have been desperate enough to send a soldier (Why send a grunt that isn't loyal and you'd have no hope for?) to find a needed battalion's whereabouts.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Gefaehrlich on Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:36 am

Infidel wrote:
Nasca wrote:Also; people need to get it through their head that right now in the server gear DOES matter and so does experience. Having a highly trained individual puts you miles ahead of everyone, full stop. Neither benefits are really fair, nor are they reasonable for the setting.


So what then? Wait for everyone to get extremely over powered gear? I guess the first person that gets good gear should be PKed by those standards, since it is unfair. I guess we should wait until Lazarus comes up to let people create slightly experienced characters.

Nasca wrote:Your ranger was not sent with them.
The NCR would not send a veteran ranger [one of, if not the most elite fighting force they have] with a scouting party of people they knew they were probably going to abandon and be unable to support.

Well, in the lore the New Californian Republic was basically massacred. They could easily have been desperate enough to send a soldier (Why send a grunt that isn't loyal and you'd have no hope for?) to find a needed battalion's whereabouts.

They were massacred, yes. But they would not be 'desperate' enough to send one of their best Soldiers to go investigate the whereabouts of a missing Expansionist Battalion that they already know was overrun and wiped out by a Legion ambush. - The Command squad that was in communication with the Battalion was getting constant updates as the Legion ran over their position. They knew they were lost, they knew it was useless to send assistance, so they let them die.

The NCR Troopers are cannon-fodder - Expendable, especially since they can easily conscript / recruit from their Overpopulated nation. However Veteran Rangers, and Normal Rangers, are not expendable, and as such are not sent out on expansion missions, and are rather allocated to defend high-priority locations.

Also, A grunt whom isn't loyal? Lolwat.

"So what then? Wait for everyone to get extremely over powered gear? I guess the first person that gets good gear should be PKed by those standards, since it is unfair. I guess we should wait until Lazarus comes up to let people create slightly experienced characters."

No. We should just wait for all these people to stop trying to apply for a goddamn DESERT RANGER whom also spawn with the BEST training and the BEST equipment and instead watch people apply for reasonable things.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:53 am

Gefaehrlich wrote:

They were massacred, yes. But they would not be 'desperate' enough to send one of their best Soldiers to go investigate the whereabouts of a missing Expansionist Battalion that they already know was overrun and wiped out by a Legion ambush. - The Command squad that was in communication with the Battalion was getting constant updates as the Legion ran over their position. They knew they were lost, they knew it was useless to send assistance, so they let them die.

You're right, I fixed my backstory a bit. I will add a bit to it about how my character joined the NCR, became Ranger then worked his way to Veteran Ranger soon.

Gefaehrlich wrote:The NCR Troopers are cannon-fodder - Expendable, especially since they can easily conscript / recruit from their Overpopulated nation. However Veteran Rangers, and Normal Rangers, are not expendable, and as such are not sent out on expansion missions, and are rather allocated to defend high-priority locations.

Not when there hardly isn't anyone left to conscript or recruit.


Gefaehrlich wrote:No. We should just wait for all these people to stop trying to apply for a goddamn DESERT RANGER whom also spawn with the BEST training and the BEST equipment and instead watch people apply for reasonable things.

I think you're under the impression that I'm going to be a very hostile character. I'm sticking to Passive Role play, and I wanted a more interesting character to base my role play off of. I'm not asking for a shit ton of stuff, all I'm asking for is the experience, uniform and a rifle to use for self-defense.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Gefaehrlich on Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:28 am

You are severely underestimating how large the NCR is in terms of manpower. They are nowhere near close to 'running out' of Conscripts and Recruits - They use 'Human wave' tactics. They killed off the Western BoS by throwing bodies at them, and it didn't even put a dent into their number of soldiers.

The NCR also did not lose a notable fraction of their manpower during the battle of Hoover Dam, and the interference by the Independent Vegas. They own a huge section of Western America, and their territory is OVERPOPULATED, meaning, as I said a moment ago, they have a MASSIVE pool of people to conscript and recruit from.

And no, I understand you're saying the character isn't going to be hostile - I just know that it's unimportant to the equipment request.

My Vault dweller isn't hostile, and rarely even interacts with people - So I suppose I should be given a set of Desert Ranger Armor(which he totally would've stolen) as well as a 12.7mm SMG.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:02 pm

Updated the application's OOC gear section.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Painful History on Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:06 pm

"Not to good in close quarter encounters."

Rangers are trained to deal with this. One of the things that separates Veteran Rangers from Paladins is the reliance on armor. Rangers are trained to fight without armor with weapons, Paladins rely on their armor a whole lot.

I'm -support leaning towards neutral atm, with the update on the armor, but there are a lot of inconsistencies you have to fix. If it had happened IC, on a server, I could've rolled with it, but this is a pre-made backstory, so Lore has to really be taken into account.
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:02 pm

Painful History wrote:"Not to good in close quarter encounters."

Rangers are trained to deal with this. One of the things that separates Veteran Rangers from Paladins is the reliance on armor. Rangers are trained to fight without armor with weapons, Paladins rely on their armor a whole lot.

I'm -support leaning towards neutral atm, with the update on the armor, but there are a lot of inconsistencies you have to fix. If it had happened IC, on a server, I could've rolled with it, but this is a pre-made backstory, so Lore has to really be taken into account.

Well I don't want to be super soldier. The character was Recon anyways, so he mainly focused on that.

Also, you're character application for Juliet is asking for even more gear than I am :/

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Painful History on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:09 pm

Rangers aren't mainly Recon though. Rangers are Rangers, final... If you changed the whole app to make him a First Recon Sergeant and have him being sent here with a small squad that gets wiped out then kudos to you and I'd fully support it. You had to get rid of the armor though for it to make sense.


I don't care about your equipment or your weapons. I just want consistency, das all Smile
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:11 pm

Painful History wrote:Rangers aren't mainly Recon though. Rangers are Rangers, final... If you changed the whole app to make him a First Recon Sergeant and have him being sent here with a small squad that gets wiped out then kudos to you and I'd fully support it. You had to get rid of the armor though for it to make sense.


I don't care about your equipment or your weapons. I just want consistency, das all Smile

I meant Ex-Recon, I plan to add to the backstory when my arms aren't in pain and I can type more.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Painful History on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:13 pm

Ah, alright, then again 20 years of being a ranger teaches you a lot about CQC, you know. Hell, if you're willing to downgrade him a bit for more consistency. How about you make the Vet Ranger Armor functional Patrol Armor and make him a regular ranger? I'd fully support that.
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:16 pm

Painful History wrote:Ah, alright, then again 20 years of being a ranger teaches you a lot about CQC, you know. Hell, if you're willing to downgrade him a bit for more consistency. How about you make the Vet Ranger Armor functional Patrol Armor and make him a regular ranger? I'd fully support that.

Because a standard Patrol Ranger wouldn't have the skills to make it this far from California. Also, it wouldn't be logical to have an entire squad dessert the NCR all at once. I don't see the problem with having Veteran Ranger gear that is so degraded that it doesn't even help what-so-ever with stopping rounds, maybe only melee weapons.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Painful History on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:18 pm

A standard Patrol Ranger could make it this far from Cali. Cali is mainly NCR controlled and with a bit of ingenuity he could easily make it here with a few injuries and scratches her and there and no one said about an entire squad deserting.

If you're implying that your Veteran Ranger deserted, which I didn't read and must have overlooked, then this is going back to the -support section...

I already told you, I don't care about your gear.
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:20 pm

Painful History wrote:A standard Patrol Ranger could make it this far from Cali. Cali is mainly NCR controlled and with a bit of ingenuity he could easily make it here with a few injuries and scratches her and there and no one said about an entire squad deserting.

If you're implying that your Veteran Ranger deserted, which I didn't read and must have overlooked, then this is going back to the -support section...

I already told you, I don't care about your gear.

A standard Patrol Ranger would never be able to make it across the Rockies and through numerous hostile tribes

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Painful History on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:21 pm

All you have to do is be able to avoid them, which theoretically, with a bit of luck, you could.

I stand where I stand.
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:19 pm

Added to my backstory.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Gefaehrlich on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:19 am

"Rangers aren't mainly Recon though."

U wot Painful.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_California_Republic_Rangers

Rangers are Combat and Recon, this is explained in the wiki.

"The New California Republic Rangers are an elite outfit of the New California Republic Army. The Rangers are a volunteer special force renowned as much for their shrewd reconnaissance capabilities as their bravery and combat prowess."

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/1st_Recon

1st Recon are NOT Rangers, they are a Specialist NCR Recon Unit, Entirely Separate from the NCR Rangers / Desert Rangers. They wear different armor and operate and fight differently - Him making the guy into 1st Recon Sniper - Whom are literally all in the Mojave, and are built from a very tiny squad - Would subtract from the app, require him to rewrite everything, and just generally not make sense.

And he's right, A Veteran Ranger would have a much easier time traversing the distance to Montana than a Normal Ranger or an NCR Recon Trooper.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Painful History on Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:34 am

Yes, it would, doesn't mean he would travel the whole distance. They are volunteer special forces they do Recon, yes, but my point was that they are not mainly focused around the skills a Recon trooper would have, as in, they don't only have those. They are all-around soldiers and thank you for proving my point, I said they weren't mainly recon and they aren't they're both combat and recon, which means they aren't focused on the latter. Their job mainly focuses on Recon and Assassinations, yes, but their skills are not limited to the former or the latter was my point.

I know 1st Recon are not rangers... That's why I said what I said?

See... a much easier time, doesn't mean it's impossible. Sending a Patrol Ranger rather than a Veteran Ranger would make more sense... Discarding a fresh, volunteer ranger who had a few years under his belt and is almost just as loyal to the NCR makes more sense than sending someone who's undying loyal and a grizzled veteran that has been a Ranger for 20 years, let alone a NCR Soldier.

I'm done here, my verdict is -support not due to the gear and skills, which he didn't even put in the page for some odd reason, but the overall backstory. I'm going to wait for Scrat to give his 2 cents since this directly influences his faction.

Spoiler:
Also, just a little bit of information, the NCR is so corrupt on the inside that there's another way to become a Veteran Ranger that doesn't take 20 years but involves a whole lot of helping the NCR as a whole and knowing the right people as well as, of course, having the appropriate skills already.
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Infidel on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:18 pm

Painful History wrote:Yes, it would, doesn't mean he would travel the whole distance. They are volunteer special forces they do Recon, yes, but my point was that they are not mainly focused around the skills a Recon trooper would have, as in, they don't only have those. They are all-around soldiers and thank you for proving my point, I said they weren't mainly recon and they aren't they're both combat and recon, which means they aren't focused on the latter. Their job mainly focuses on Recon and Assassinations, yes, but their skills are not limited to the former or the latter was my point.

I know 1st Recon are not rangers... That's why I said what I said?

See... a much easier time, doesn't mean it's impossible. Sending a Patrol Ranger rather than a Veteran Ranger would make more sense... Discarding a fresh, volunteer ranger who had a few years under his belt and is almost just as loyal to the NCR makes more sense than sending someone who's undying loyal and a grizzled veteran that has been a Ranger for 20 years, let alone a NCR Soldier.

I'm done here, my verdict is -support not due to the gear and skills, which he didn't even put in the page for some odd reason, but the overall backstory. I'm going to wait for Scrat to give his 2 cents since this directly influences his faction.

Spoiler:
Also, just a little bit of information, the NCR is so corrupt on the inside that there's another way to become a Veteran Ranger that doesn't take 20 years but involves a whole lot of helping the NCR as a whole and knowing the right people as well as, of course, having the appropriate skills already.


Just giving a -Support isn't helpful, how about constructive criticism? Otherwise it just seems like you're against the gear because you don't want anyone to have somewhat decent gear other than you.

Also funny how you had a -Support leaning towards Neutral but when you get shown up and proven wrong you get pissy and change to a strict -Support.

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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

Post by Captain Snyder on Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:01 pm

Denied.

Desert Rangers/Vet. Rangers are appliable (now they are), but they're going to be very hard to get. Sorry!


Pending for playtime and other things; will check back on the app within a week (or two)
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Re: Jake's Character Transfer Application

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